Caber balance changes 12/9/2025

[turtleology]

You may call the December 9, 2025 Caber update a "balance," but I see it as the opposite. For over 15 years, the Ullapool Caber has been a unique and exciting tool for multi-kill opportunities, rewarding creative and risky playstyles. The recent changes have stripped away that identity, reducing it to single-target damage only.

This not only makes the weapon feel pointless compared to other options, but it also erases the fun and unpredictability that made the Caber special. Forcing players into single-target damage after so many years of enjoying its explosive multi-kill potential is unfun, unfair, and diminishes the diversity of gameplay.

I beg you to please reconsider and revert these changes. Bring the Caber back to life as the chaotic, high-risk, high-reward weapon it was meant to be.

[Marxvee]

This is satire. The Ullapool Caber can still damage and kill multiple players at once in it's explosion.

[turtleology]

This is satire. The Ullapool Caber can still damage and kill multiple players at once in it's explosion.

I never denied that but only at a minimal range! less than a sticky in terms of range. if you don't use the caber actively and consistently don't speak about the caber and its current usage.

[jh34ghu43gu]

There was no balance change? This was a bug fix to let custom mvm upgrades (or any other custom modes that modify weapon attributes) properly work with it.

[turtleology]

There was no balance change? This was a bug fix to let custom mvm upgrades (or any other custom modes that modify weapon attributes) properly work with it.

YES tf2 updated today! are you dense?

[FlaminSarge]

Hi, looking at the change that went in (ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013#1456), it looks like it only affects the caber when it has the mult_dmg or mult_explosion_radius properties applied, which in stock gameplay it cannot get; therefore, none of the caber's behavior should have changed with this latest patch. It would be worth attaching a video demonstrating previous behavior vs current behavior if you want folks to look into this, as it seems like it could be a bug introduced with the change regarding those properties.

Previous commenter's comment was about the above, and again it's most likely a bug that was introduced if its behavior changed in stock gameplay.

I would edit the issue name to something like "Caber explosion radius bugged after 2025/12/09 update"

[turtleology]

Hi, looking at the change that went in (ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013#1456), it looks like it only affects the caber when it has the mult_dmg or mult_explosion_radius properties applied, which in stock gameplay it cannot get; therefore, none of the caber's behavior should have changed with this latest patch. It would be worth attaching a video demonstrating previous behavior vs current behavior if you want folks to look into this, as it seems like it could be a bug introduced with the change regarding those properties.

Previous commenter's comment was about the above, and again it's most likely a bug that was introduced if its behavior changed in stock gameplay.

I would edit the issue name to something like "Caber explosion radius bugged after 2025/12/09 update"

it literally has a far less radius compared to damage. that was the literal change in the weapon. ACTS liek an explosion and has reduced damage based on explosion radius and explosion radius. before teh dmg of the caber on crit would do the 300 + crit to the person hit and the hitboxes around it for full dmg now the caber only does the 300+ crit dmg to the single target hit and the massive reduced damage to those around the the single target hit.

[FlaminSarge]

Again, I'm saying that this was most likely a bug introduced with the patch and you should provide videos demonstrating the before/after so that people can debug and look into it.

[mastercoms]

It's very likely the DMG_MELEE change, if that's true. However, that is a bug and will be fixed hopefully soon.

[jh34ghu43gu]

Using the double physics test beta (which hasn't been updated in a month according to steamdb so I assume it can be used to backwards check the behavior) I went and hit bots with a crit caber, as well as bots in the current version. Both versions all bots that were not directly hit by the caber but still in blast radius took 169 damage so you're gonna need to provide some proof or better explain the problem cause it's seemingly not there.

Double physics - https://youtu.be/atw0jxGVrIw
Current version - https://youtu.be/-kJvsIS1hwU

Also being rude does not help your case.

[JoriKos]

What is with people demanding good bug fixes to be reverted for made-up reasons? I can't replicate any changes on my end.

[allvei]

Who wins?

A group of code reviewers, playtesters, and programmers.
OR
"Trust me bro"

[allvei]

It's very likely the DMG_MELEE change, if that's true. However, that is a bug and will be fixed hopefully soon.

@mastercoms I reviewed the code and everywhere the caber explosion changes gameplay aspects through the DMG_MELEE flag I had already brought up in the original PR.
Just in case I also reviewed DMG_BLAST_SURFACE (since #define DMG_MELEE (DMG_BLAST_SURFACE)) as well the 1<<27 bit shift, but nothing aligns with what turtleology claims.

I should also highlight his account was created 16 hours ago.

[bjorn-martinsson]

It's very likely the DMG_MELEE change, if that's true. However, that is a bug and will be fixed hopefully soon.

@mastercoms I reviewed the code and everywhere the caber explosion changes gameplay aspects through the DMG_MELEE flag I had already brought up in the original PR. Just in case I also reviewed DMG_BLAST_SURFACE (since #define DMG_MELEE (DMG_BLAST_SURFACE)) as well the 1<<27 bit shift, but nothing aligns with what turtleology claims.

I should also highlight his account was created 16 hours ago.

In turtle's defence. The PR with the changes and the recently released patch notes were both really quite cryptic about what exactly changed. Also, there was no discussion in the PR about what impact the change could/would have. I think a lot of us caber enjoyers got anxious reading those patch notes.

Also, the fact that the changes did affect gameplay stuff like passtime is a sign that it is not so simple to tell what the changes did, even to the people that know the internals of tf2. So in my opinion, don't blame a guy for beliving the caber had been nerfed.

[wgetJane]

i think combined melee+blast damage is not ideal, i think the caber should just be checked specifically, parts of the code may expect melee type dmg to only come from melee weapons and not explosions