[TF] Fixed Ullapool Caber explosions not counting as melee kills and ignoring damage/radius attributes.

[Bitl]

Description

This PR adds 2 fixes for the Ullapool Caber:

• Fixed the Ullapool Caber's explosion not being counted as melee damage (for kill_refills_meter)
• Fixed the Ullapool Caber's explosion ignoring mult_dmg and mult_explosion_radius attributes

This PR does NOT fix the Ullapool Caber's mini-crit bug. That's already handled by #1120.

[StealthSteeler]

Caber buff ftw

[SolarLightTF2]

This has caused a regression in PASS Time where Caber explosions can now steal the JACK

[turtleology]

I am a long-time Ullapool Caber user, and the recent December 2025 changes impact this weapon far more than they do for players who rarely use it.

For the last 8 years, I’ve accepted and adapted to the previous nerfs, but this latest rework feels like burying the Caber six feet deep. There is now no meaningful distinction in Demoknight weapon choice. Removing its already slower swing speed in favor of a crit charge, while forcing it into a single-target role, strips away the unique identity that made the Caber fun and rewarding.

The Caber was always about risk and reward — living by it and dying by it. Turning it into a bland, single-target weapon erases that identity and makes me question continuing to play.

I respectfully ask that you reconsider and revert these changes, restoring the Caber’s explosive, chaotic role that has defined it for over a decade.

[turtleology]

Caber buff ftw

it is not a buff... it destroys the ability to kill multiple people. makes it pointless targeting groups and using it effectively on certain game modes.

[allvei]

Caber buff ftw

it is not a buff... it destroys the ability to kill multiple people. makes it pointless targeting groups and using it effectively on certain game modes.

Does it now only hit one person with the explosion? Really?

Also what reworks are you talking about?

[turtleology]

Caber buff ftw

it is not a buff... it destroys the ability to kill multiple people. makes it pointless targeting groups and using it effectively on certain game modes.

Does it now only hit one person with the explosion? Really?

Also what reworks are you talking about?

the 2025 dec 9th changes: its not directly a single person, but with the explosion radius on crit it will only do like 150 to directly surrounding players making it way less useful and more single target weapon gameplay. which is like EVERYOTHER WEAPON in demoknights arsenal. making it not a fun or reliable choice compared to scottsman or katana. From my previously uses on the weapon i could choose my charges and hit the crit and take out multiple ppl now it's almost impossible to get double kills, I thought the nerfed secondary dmg and swing penalty was challenging enough now the reward for a well-timed charge is pointless. Not to mention the explosive vs melee kill counter for shield recharge buff is for only one shield and not worth anything because only one shield gives that melee kill cooldown buff: and only to a possible one kill because the multikill potential is not possible anymore. IT just bad, "fixes" 8 years later making it a worse over all weapon. I am a caber main and have been dedicated to it and I'm just sad man.... just so sad; these changes are on paper and not for people who actually dedicated and use the weapon itself they dont understand the absolute nerf this update has caused its almost worthless now.

[allvei]

@Bitl
There's a few changes that might have been unintentionally introduced by adding a DMG_MELEE flag to the caber:

What has changed with the caber explosion:

• Can now steal the pass time jack.
• Can now destroy stickybombs.
• Increased healing with vampire powerup in Mannpower.
• Decreased damage with the mini-crit in Mannpower.

[Bitl]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

I'll definitely look into this. Caber might just need to have a special flag for it that makes it count as a melee kill while not altering the gameplay flow

[allvei]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

@turtleology

Are you sure you understood the change properly? The caber is now affected by the weapon attribute mult_explosion_radius, which means that if we applied and modified the weapon attribute, we can change its explosion radius. But it doesn't change anything for vanilla because the caber doesn't have the attribute:

"attributes"
{
	"fire rate penalty"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_postfiredelay"
		"value"	"1.2"
	}
	"single wep deploy time increased"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_single_wep_deploy_time"
		"value"	"2.0"
	}
	"crit mod disabled"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_crit_chance"
		"value"	"0"
	}
}

Or have I missed anything?

[Bitl]

yeah, the attribute functionality changes do not change the weapon directly since they aren't included with it. That change only affects modders/vscript.

[Bitl]

I have fixed the regressions, read #1697

[turtleology]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

wahtever was changed baased on the multi hit radius has fucked the weapon. i used to consistantly get multi kills with the caber on a well time charge now its unbelievable less damage on the others around the initial target. it still hits them but it makes it unreliable the way ive been getting multihits and kills the last 8 years. there is no reason what so ever to change the weapon now, its worse off after this update by far.

[turtleology]

yeah, the attribute functionality changes do not change the weapon directly since they aren't included with it. That change only affects modders/vscript.

listen whatever update you made this weapon far worse than it was before. I used to constantly damage and KILL multiple ppl around the charge crit hit. Making it a normal explosion with a drop off radius was the wrong move entirely for a unique melee weapon. You literally just made it a normal 1 person target melee weapon with less range and fire speed penalty. You may think stat wise its no changed much but I'm telling you its completely different weapon atm and its far worse than im used too.

[bjorn-martinsson]

Did this change affect how the caber and fists of steel interact?

[turtleology]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

I'll definitely look into this. Caber might just need to have a special flag for it that makes it count as a melee kill while not altering the gameplay flow

I’m asking you to please reconsider the recent update to the Ullapool Caber. This change wasn’t requested by the community, and in its current state it has severely damaged the weapon’s functionality. The multi‑damage interaction is clearly bugged and needs to be reverted to its previous behavior.

Right now, the Caber deals a single 300+ damage hit to one target, while the surrounding damage is drastically lower — even lower than the Caber’s old crit explosion. This makes the weapon effectively unusable. There is no reason to pick it over the Scotsman’s Skullcutter, which offers extended range, random crits, and no firing speed penalty.

The only thing that made the Caber worthwhile was its ability to deal true multi‑hit damage to all players caught in the initial explosion. That was its identity. Removing that has stripped the weapon of its purpose.

On paper, the numbers may look unchanged, but in actual gameplay — not bot testing, not stationary targets — the nerf is obvious. Ramp‑up damage, movement, and real server conditions all reveal how much weaker the Caber has become. This update has unintentionally pushed the weapon into the ground, and it didn’t need any adjustment in the first place.

I’m going to keep voicing this because the Caber deserves better than a bugged, untested downgrade. Please revisit this change and restore the weapon to its previous, functional state.

[turtleology]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

@turtleology

Are you sure you understood the change properly? The caber is now affected by the weapon attribute mult_explosion_radius, which means that if we applied and modified the weapon attribute, we can change its explosion radius. But it doesn't change anything for vanilla because the caber doesn't have the attribute:

"attributes"
{
	"fire rate penalty"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_postfiredelay"
		"value"	"1.2"
	}
	"single wep deploy time increased"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_single_wep_deploy_time"
		"value"	"2.0"
	}
	"crit mod disabled"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_crit_chance"
		"value"	"0"
	}
}

Or have I missed anything?

i am telling you my friend. the weapon feels worse off in actual combat and server casual and community. The rate at which it does damage after a 300+ crit only to hit ppl behind the initial target for 158 is a major nerf and making the weapon pointless to use now. You may think code and stationary bot videos its ok but its not, it feels different and worse off overall.

Also its not just me on reddit other have notice the nerf and the lack of multikills also making this change to have serious gameplay effects. I'm not just saying this cause I'm trolling but because I care for the weapon, and have been using it for 7 damn years and now I'm not seeing results I previously had. I'm no coder but this change has 100% changed the effectiveness of the weapon and I am not happy. I don't want to play this game anymore if this doesn't get fixed or reverted. it's the only weapon i use and its changed the actual gameplay I have become used too.

[Bitl]

Replying to #1456 (comment)

@turtleology
Are you sure you understood the change properly? The caber is now affected by the weapon attribute mult_explosion_radius, which means that if we applied and modified the weapon attribute, we can change its explosion radius. But it doesn't change anything for vanilla because the caber doesn't have the attribute:

"attributes"
{
	"fire rate penalty"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_postfiredelay"
		"value"	"1.2"
	}
	"single wep deploy time increased"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_single_wep_deploy_time"
		"value"	"2.0"
	}
	"crit mod disabled"
	{
		"attribute_class"	"mult_crit_chance"
		"value"	"0"
	}
}

Or have I missed anything?

i am telling you my friend. the weapon feels worse off in actual combat and server casual and community. The rate at which it does damage after a 300+ crit only to hit ppl behind the initial target for 158 is a major nerf and making the weapon pointless to use now. You may think code and stationary bot videos its ok but its not, it feels different and worse off overall.

Also its not just me on reddit other have notice the nerf and the lack of multikills also making this change to have serious gameplay effects. I'm not just saying this cause I'm trolling but because I care for the weapon, and have been using it for 7 damn years and now I'm not seeing results I previously had. I'm no coder but this change has 100% changed the effectiveness of the weapon and I am not happy. I don't want to play this game anymore if this doesn't get fixed or reverted. it's the only weapon i use and its changed the actual gameplay I have become used too.

I'll take a look at fixing this with #1697

[kisak-valve]

@turtleology, you've repeatedly expressed your opinion and you're choosing to create spam at this point. This is not re-enforcing your stance. It's been requested multiple times that you produce evidence so that others can analyze it to better understand and propose a solution, not to refute what you're experiencing. That's what would help move the topic forward.

Consider this a warning, if you choose a path of spam without something constructive to add to the discussion, I'll be forced to step in as a moderator. The bickering that's been happening will not lead to an outcome you want.

Additionally, splitting the discussion across multiple issue trackers so that you can repeat yourself is redundant noise. Please continue the discussion on ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games#7738.